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17 comments on “Feedback Post: Season 07, Episode 06 – “Beyond the Wall”

  1. Fluids Aug 21, 2017

    I thought the Night King won this week's Game of Thrones

    I thought the Night King won this week’s Game of Thrones.

    The overall energy of this episode I felt was very uneven.

    I gave this a 65 out of 100. I didn’t like chunks of dialogue.

    The Lake Wight battle scene was incredible and kept my score from going down further. The special effects were absolutely stunning.

    I thought again, most of the scenes were set up. The dialogue felt like filler dialog to get us to the battle of the Dragons and White Walkers. The last two scenes I thought encompassed the best emotional scene and worst plot wise elements scene of the show. (SEE: The Good and The Bad.)

    What I was given left me with a ton of questions and also sets several pieces of the story off in certain directions or trajectories (SEE: The Unknown.)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Best lines:

    Tormund: ‘I want to make great big babies with her. Think of them; great big monsters they’d conquer the world’. The Hound: ‘How did a mad F^&*&^ like you survive in the world for this long?’

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Good:

    * Nice sweeping long shots of the men walking.

    * Great banter (Tormund messing with Gendry); between the Hound and Tormund and Beric and Jon; especially about Death being the enemy and defending those who cannot defend themselves.

    * Great music at the Wight Lake battle and the scene where the Night King hurdles the ice spear at one of the dragons was fantastic. I loved all the special effects and visual effects.

    * The final scene between Jon and Dany where he bends the knee did have a lot of emotion and I really thought the actors did a terrific job of capturing empathy for the loss of the Dragon and a mutual deep determination to eliminate the Night King.

    * A Wight Dragon is a fantastic idea. I just don’t like how it was originated. (SEE: The Bad and the Unknown).

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Bad:

    * A lot of walking and banter while walking; reminding me of the Lord of Rings in that capacity.

    * Does Dany really believe deceit and Mass Murder win wars?

    * Beric made more sense on strategy then Jon to defeat the Night King. How are they going to get out of there totally surrounded by thousands of the dead powered by the Night King?

    * Little Finger thanked the Maester for bringing Sansa the note she requested. Sansa asked her where Arya got that note.

    * Since when do the Wights exhibit such intelligence? They watch a rock slide across the ice and then assess and conclude that the water is just frozen enough to support the weight of each of them attacking one at a time?

    * There is some bad continuity with how close the Wights were surrounding Jon and company at the lake. At first they were fairly close and as Jon’s party slowly freezes they appeared to be further off.

    * I really had a lot of issues with the four very long iron (or ice) linked chains the White Walkers were using and hauling the dragon out of water with them. How were those chains crafted? Let’s suppose the White Walkers have the skill and number of foundries necessary to forge the iron (or ice) chain links required to make those chains quickly. It’s been shown fairly consistently at Hardhomme and in this very episode that Wights and White Walkers do not fair well in water so how did either of them get the chains wrapped around the dragon’s neck? We literally see Wights sink into the water once they fall in. If Wights or White Walkers can swim, why don’t they just swim around the end of the wall in the Narrow Sea? All they had to do was have Viserion’s body skid across the frozen lake to the shore and then have the Night King resurrect his body later. I guess they wanted to surprise us with what they were pulling up from the bottom of the water. Story sense works more for me than surprise; especially in this case.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Unknown:

    * Why didn’t Arya tell Sansa she got the note from Little Finger when Sansa asked her where she got it? If she did, Sansa would know not to trust Little Finger.

    * Will Arya leave Winterfell to finish Cersei off herself or will she try and eliminate Sansa? What was the point in menacing Sansa?

    * Did Cersei really send the raven for Sansa to go to King’s Landing or was it Little-finger?

    * How does Beric always light his sword? His blood? What doesn’t Beric understand about killing the Night King?

    * How do the wights know that a stone skittering across the ice makes the ice worth walking on?

    * Can a Wight Dragon be used to break down the wall? Does it breath ice instead of fire?

    * Where is the Hound off to now? Technically although he helped get the Wight he hasn’t bent the knee to anyone. If he helps bring the Wight to King’s Landing he will see his brother with Cersei. Is Cleghane bowl still possible?

    * What’s stopping the Night King from just getting on Wight Viserion and flying over the Wall with several white walkers on it’s back? He could literally just pick up and drop them off a few at a time. They can start killing Westerosi and converting them to an army.

    * Will Jon bending the knee with Dany send the Northerners over to side with Sansa over Jon because they won’t side with a Targaryen and Arya will be forced to flee Winterfell looking for on? The only thing that would keep them inline would be the reveal that Jon is a true Targaryen right? Possibly through combination of Gilly’s annulment notes about Rhaegar’s marriage and marriage to Leanna in Dorne and Bran’s Green sight?

    * What will Dany think once she sees the Wight form of Viserion? Will she have trouble killing it? Kind of like in the Walking Dead how at first the characters in the Walking Dead had a hard time killing the zombified remains of their friends and loved ones?

    Can Bran warg into Wight Viserion to gain control of him? Doubtful. If he could, then he or the three eyed Raven could have stopped the Wight army from invading the three eyed Raven’s lair.

  2. Fluids Aug 21, 2017

    Is Viserion a White Dragon or Wight Dragon?

    Is Viserion a White Dragon or Wight Dragon? I think he’s a White Dragon now that I think about this. The Night King touched Viserion just like he touched Craster’s son and changed him into a White Walker. Does that mean Viserion (who was touched on the head) a White Dragon? The Night King could have just raised Viserion from the water without hauling him out of the water (like he raised the dead at Hardhomme) without touching them.

    Why didn’t the Night King spear Drogon (instead of Viserion)?

    • Roberto Suarez Aug 23, 2017

      I think being converted while alive makes you a White Walker. Being reanimated from death makes you a whight. So I think Viserion is a Whight Dragon.

      • davesho Aug 24, 2017

        Maybe Viserion Didn't die

        We clearly saw that he was mortally wounded. However he then fell into ice cold water. So it’s possible that he could have entered a hypothermic state which cools down the body and delays the dying process. There are stories of people drowning in ice cold water and still being brought back to life 30 mins later. Maybe that could have happened here?

  3. Brian Morris Aug 21, 2017

    WTF

    WTF
    I enjoyed the funny, time wasting, banter between the Northen Avengers but that was it. The plan was stupid. A bunch of nameless red furs died. I had thought, hoped, that only Jon and the Hound would have been the only survivors. Who really cares about Thoros of Mir?
    Why did the dead stop and care about falling into the ice? They are dead already, what difference does it make if they are cold and wet? Why didn’t the freshly frozen ice not break again?

    I thought Sansa advanced as a character and leader. All season long she has warned everyone not to trust Littlefinger but now, for some unknown reason, she trusts him? She sent away the only person who is 100% loyal to her. Why? Because Brienne was sworn to protect both sisters? So she could act as mediator between the sisters. I thought she was sending Arya with Brienne to represent house Stark. Nope instead she weakened her position for no reason at all.
    Show runners- i have an idea wouldn’t it be cool if we had an ice dragon?
    Sure what is the dumbest way for that to happen? Northen Avengers? Team ups are all the rage.
    Perfect we will use that Northern Avenger plot.

    Show runners- Who do we need in the dragon pit scenes?
    Everyone!
    Everyone? Won’t that make things overly complicated?
    Nope, everyone should be there.
    Sounds great

    Cersie better look prego next week.

    • Fluids Aug 24, 2017

      Fantastic comments as always!

      Ha! Love it!! Fantastic comments as always. How about Arya threatening to out Sansa to the Northerners? It’s almost like someone who was working on movies instead of the show took over the writing and directing chairs.

  4. Alex McGregor Aug 21, 2017

    Hi guys,

    3/5 for this correspondent. Obviously this episode was epic what with the walkers, wights and dragons, but the Winterfell scenes make no sense. Arya confronts Sansa about the letter she wrote under duress: OK, that works. Sansa then relates her fears to Baelish who suggests getting Brienne on board as protection: again, fine. This works. Sansa then sends Brienne away: hang on, what? Then Sansa, obviously afraid for her life goes poking around Arya’s room: no, you’ve lost me now. This is either the most elaborate set up (of Baelish) or someone has dropped the ball.
    I watched this episode online last Wednesday as I thought I’d not be able to avoid spoilers (I was right) and genuinely believed HBO had released it deliberately with scenes from what would eventually be on the ‘deleted scenes’ disc. Wrong again.

    • Fluids Aug 22, 2017

      Great points about Sansa and Arya

      Great points Alex, Also why is Sansa asking Arya where she got the note Cersei forced her to write when Maester Wolkan revealed to her in S7E3 that Maester Luwin kept a record of every raven scroll that came into Winterfell? I thought Sansa was craftier than that and she should know that Arya got that from Little Finger and that he’s trying to set them up to fight each other.

      It’s possible I suppose that the note from Cersei was really Little Finger trying to get Brienne away from Sansa so she has no protection and she’s easier to kill for Arya. Then again, Little Finger would probably be betting more on Sansa then Arya as a way to rule the North. When it’s known by Jon or someone else that he bent the knee to Dany then I think things will really heat up with the Starks and the Northerners siding with Sansa until Bran verifies that Jon is pure Targaryen that was protected most of his life by Ned. They all might come together after knowing that.

    • Fluids Aug 22, 2017

      Arya blackmailing Sansa saying she's going to the Northerners makes no sense

      A few more things on the Winterfell writing:

      * Arya saw Sansa collapse in hysterics when Joffrey asked for Ned’s head, so her lines to Sansa about her finery at their father’s execution don’t make sense. Maybe those are the thoughts of 7 or 8 year old Arya, however Arya is a late teen now; she would be thinking differently. With her hatred of Cersei, the known bounty on Sansa’s head over the years; she should be believing Sansa when she says she was forced to write it.

      * Arya blackmailing Sansa’s telling her she was going to tell the Lords of the North about her writing the note is also stupid. What good will that serve for her own house?

      Crappy writing for me.

  5. Robin Aug 22, 2017

    I understand that Dany’s inability to bear children was mentioned in the books. But I don’t remember it being explicit on the show? Am I mis-remembering? It seems like a very important detail for a would-be Queen with no surviving family.

    I’m confused by the Hound saying goodbye to Beric. He had a vision instructing him to head north. He saw the Army of the Dead. And now what? He’s done? He’s off to buy a farm somewhere?

    If I was the Night King I’d be having words with my lazy subordinates. Why aren’t they throwing javelins as well?

    • Fluids Aug 22, 2017

      Now you see it...Now you don't...

      Great points Robin. Why does he get to have all the fun of throwing Javelins and they don’t? 🙂

      The Night King was also holding a Javelin when Beric was telling Jon if they get rid of him; everything goes away. Then later on, when the Dragons attack, a White Walker hands him a Javelin. I guess he must have been tired and put his original Javelin away? Bad continuity…

  6. Fluids Aug 22, 2017

    More things that don't make sense with this episode

    Not only do the Wights have intelligence, they employ the same tropic attack patterns as crowds of bad guys in Chinese martial arts movies and attack the hero a few at a time instead of all at once. 🙂

    Why didn’t the Night King attack Dany and Drogon? They were sitting there on the ground a lot closer than Viserion? That didn’t make much sense.

    I think if you took my idea last week of sending Dany and Jon (this time without Ed Sheeran) 🙂 over the wall (maybe with Ser Jorah also in tow) to capture a Wight and all three of her dragons they could have accomplished the same results and they would have made more sense. Have the Night King throw spears and miss Drogon and then hit Viserion. Have Viserion fall and land on the shore by a lake and be resurrected (without chains, etc..). That cuts out a lot of the needless walking banter and they could literally serve up the Wight at King’s Landing the same episode and still have the touching scene between Dany and Jon. The fact that I can put together better writing in a day shows how bad the actual writing I think was.

  7. Aaronic Aug 23, 2017

    Awful writing ruined this episode

    I did not like this episode. There were a few small scenes that I liked, such as some of the character interactions, The Hound being hilarious as usual and the progression in Jon and Dany’s relationship, though I am a little worried about the latter because it feels like it is being rushed a lot. Other than these there were a ton of things that bothered me. It’s easier to write them all in a list so here is everything that annoyed me:

    -Whatever happened to the focus on travelling and the time it takes? Gendry becomes an Olympic runner for this episode and races back to Eastwatch, sends a supersonic raven to Dany who uses thrusters on her dragons to reach the position in the North. Then she proceeds to use eagle vision to find the exact location where Jon’s group is at. And the undead army apparently just sat there watching Jon’s group the entire time all of this was happening.

    -If Dany was going to go rescue the group if they got in trouble, why didn’t she go for the wight extraction mission anyways? Surely it would be easier to capture a single wight if you have a dragon or 3 on your side. Or better yet just don’t go with this idiotic plan anyways.

    -Dany travelled super fast to the wall. Why didn’t anyone just suggest her riding to the Wallto see the army herself a few episodes ago? It’s not like she’s defending a fortress or anything and apparently she can travel the world in seconds on her dragons. That would have solved a lot of problems.

    -What did Gendry say to Dany in the message that led her directly to Jon’s group? Surely she would have been looking for hours to find their actual location and it’s not like Gendry knew that they were trapped on the lake.

    -Thoros’ death was poorly done. I didn’t care about him because he got no development and his death just meant absolutely nothing when it happened. Furthermore, it wasn’t even played out for emotional resonance. What a waste of a death.

    -This show used to have unpredictable deaths and such but there have been none in a while. All the main characters have received plot armour and the same level of threat just isn’t there anymore. I felt no tension or worry that anybody I care about would die in this episode, but the side characters felt expendable. Seems like this show has become The Walking Dead in that regard.

    -The polar bear attack was poor. The characters’ similar clothing and the blizzard setting made it impossible to tell if somebody important was being attacked or if it was just some wildling which took away from the tension.

    -The frozen lake battle was disappointing. It wasn’t even all that visually impressive and is easily overshadowed by the loot train attack from The Spoils of War.

    -The battle staging was awkward. The wights were nowhere near as vicious as they were in Hardhome and it didn’t feel right to have just 7 people hold them off of the rock for so long. It was obviously set up to have Dany swoop in at the last minute as well which took away all tension.

    -It was ridiculous that there was a perfect circular hole in the ice around the rock to save Jon’s crew. I don’t buy that the ice would conveniently break in that formation with perfect timing. And then apparently Jon’s group just sat on that rock for forever while everybody travelled around. And apparently the Night King let this happen even though he can clearly just summon a javelin and kill them all at any time. Wouldn’t that be much more convenient for him instead of wasting time just standing around?

    -Why was the Night King so slow to attack the Dragons? If he didn’t have to be so dramatic he could have easily killed all of them in just a few seconds. Also why attack the moving dragon and not the sitting Drogon who would be a much easier target? And on top of that it would leave the entire group vulnerable if Drogon is killed so the wights could have easily wiped them out. Furthermore, it also makes it less believable that the Night King would miss Drogon with the javelin later on if he was able to hit Viserion so easily.

    -The episode didn’t care enough to even identify which dragon died. It wasn’t until I read online that I realized Viserion was killed. If the writers can’t care enough to mention which one died, why should we care?

    -Why did the Hound throw snowballs at the wights? Was he trying to provoke them to attack? Sure it was a good laugh, but it still felt stupid. Also Gendry’s hammer could break the ice. Why not make another circle of broken ice so that the wights can’t cross? It’s obvious that the ice would reform in the cold, so take measures to prevent the wight army from being able to go over it. Plus doing that would be much more productive than doing nothing. Why did nobody think of this?

    -Why did The Hound leave the Brotherhood? Wasn’t his purpose to go past The Wall? I guess this is just going to be a sloppy way to have The Hound meet The Mountain when they talk with Cersei.

    -Cersei has done nothing in all this time. Surely something should have gone down while this entire mission occurred. Logically this mission should have taken at least a month so are we supposed to believe that Cersei has just done nothing in that time

    -Tyrion has lost all purpose as a character since season 6. He has done nothing significant this season and seems to just exist. All he did this week was act all smart to Dany who didn’t even bother listening to what he said. All of Tyrion’s charm just doesn’t exist anymore.

    -Apparently the wights have intelligence now as they figured out that they could walk over the ice after the Hound threw the rock. If they could figure that out, could they not figure out to jump over the hole in the ice to get past? They are only made of bones so they are much lighter than humans, meaning the ice shouldn’t break under their feet as easily.

    -Jon was pulled underwater by wights and the scene cuts away. We cut back and Jon is magically alive without us seeing how he escaped. Poor writing.

    -The wights seemed to die in the water and there have been multiple scenes to show us that wights can’t go in water. But then we saw some scenes with swimming wights. I don’t even know what to think about them anymore.

    -Where did those chains come from that were used to lift Viserion? How did the wights get them on Viserion if they can’t go in water? This entire wight vs water thing is ridiculously inconsistent and sloppy.

    -Why would Jon decide to randomly fight wights instead of getting on the dragon. Why would he fight? The entire point of the mission was to grab a wight and leave so why fight and endanger not only the mission, but the life of another dragon! It’s hard to root for Jon if I’m getting annoyed by him doing something stupid.

    -Why didn’t The Dragons attack the Night King? The whole conflict could have ended there. Although as somebody else pointed out to me, the White Walkers are immune to fire, as they just walked through it back when they attacked the cave in season 6. But Dany doesn’t know that and surely they should have tried to kill him. Wouldn’t it have been a great visual to see the Dragon Fire just stop in the face of the Night King?

    -How implausible is it that there is a White Walker scout team? There is an army going through a wasteland with no civilization in it, what the hell would they be scouting? It only seems to exist to let the heroes capture a wight easily. Also why did that one wight conveniently not die along with the others after the White Walker was killed?

    -Benjen was a plot device to help Jon escape a situation he never should have been dumb enough to get himself involved in. Wonderful. How did he even get there so fast? Why couldn’t he hop on the horse with Jon? Because he was a deus ex machine, nothing more.

    -I don’t care to watch Sansa and Arya fight. Both women seem to lack basic communication skills to clear up this misunderstanding and Arya is as unsympathetic and unlikeable as she could possibly be. The only satisfying end to this awful storyline is if this is all a plan to trick Littlefinger to kill him. And I pray that’s where this storyline is heading.

    I thought the Night King won this week’s Game of Thrones. The man has an ice dragon now, how does anyone stop him?

  8. Katrina Aug 23, 2017

    Night King won

    Sansa and Arya were so interesting this week. Arya showing her assassin self, impersonating Jacquen at the House of Black and White and challenging Sansa. Sansa showing herself up to the challenge by looking for the message in Arya’s room. And then Arya handing Sansa her knife; Arya’s way of saying “I am a weapon and you have passed my test and are worthy to wield me.”

    The events beyond the wall were spectacular. The few time glitches were a little distracting but not deal breakers for me.
    I really liked the choice to clothe the characters similarly, showing visually that king and nameless wildling are equal in this battle against Death.

    So, we now know that the Night’s King is either a greenseer or some other kind of seer. It explains him being able to see and disrupt Bran, being able to plan the capture of a dragon and know to not stop Gendry who the Night’s King obviously wanted to summon the dragons. He even brought the chains from Hardhome.

    Can the Ice Necromancers look through the eyes of any revived person? Jon died. Is he now a conduit for the Night’s King? Can the Night’s King look through the Mountain’s eyes as he is also revived dead? How much will the Night’s King see through the captured zombies eyes?

    Speaking of the Mountain. Sandor Clegane is going to Kings Landing. I see an arrest and a trial by combat on the horizon. Clegane bowl!!!!! 🙂
    90% rating

    • Katrina Aug 23, 2017

      ps

      P.S. Sandor Clegane is the obvious choice to go to Kings Landing. If anyone knows how to get into the city of Sandor, Beric, Jorah or Jon then its Sandor. He’s also useless as a hostage

      This episode shows that everyone has underestimated the tactical skills of the Night’s King. He knew they were coming, he gave the party the wight they wanted, he turned the dragon he needs to rain ice on the Iron Throne

    • Fluids Aug 24, 2017

      Chains oh my!

      Hey Katrina,

      I see loads of people theorizing online that the chains came from Hardhome, however I went back to the episode and didn’t see anything at Hardhome in the show that had chains like that. I could equally make the assumption that all ships were taken by Jon and the Wildlings back to the Wall (including the row boats) after they evacuated Hardhome. If there were boats left the Wights would have gone out in those after Jon and company. Instead they were standing at the shore staring at Jon and his crew.

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