What did you think of the second episode of Season 07, “Stormborn?” Leave your feedback here and let us know! We’ll share your thoughts and discuss your reactions in our next episode!
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Parts were great. Parts were okay.
I like pieces of this episode; not the whole thing. I give it 70 out of a 100.
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Good:
* Yay Hotpie and Nymeria!
* I thought it was great that Jon didn’t trust Little Finger. Perhaps Jon knows that Little Finger left Sansa to Roose Bolton and Ramsay which is what probably caused him to Choke Little Finger. It brought me back to Ned nearly choking little finger in front of his brothel in Season 2.
* I loved the battle plotting scene with Dany, Lady Olenna, Ellaria Sand and Yara; against Cersei.
It’s a rarity I think to see a council of women (in a show or movie) plot a battle; going through possibly scenarios; against a common enemy who is also a woman. It clearly marks the changes in leadership in this world.
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Bad:
* The Sand Snakes arguing over who gets to kill who. I thought this was stupid scene that served no purpose and I hated their laughter. It was good to see them finally die in the war with Euron; finally! I personally have hated the Dornish plot line the entire length of the show.
* I didn’t like the battle with Euron, Yara, Theon and the Sand snakes. There was too much going on with folks being killed that I didn’t even know so it lost impact for me and just was distracting. It seems like Dorne is about great wine; lots of sex and ego tripping over killing enemies.
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Unknown:
* Why doesn’t Tyrion tell Jon to bend the knee?
* Is Dany Azhor(a) Hai?
* Which side is Randall Tarly on? Will Jaime’s pressure force him to side with Cersei over the Tyrells? You would think Cersei incinerating Mace, Marjorie and Loras would have made that decision for him. However, it’s not clear to me.
* Can the crossbow be maneuvered easy enough to get off a shot at one of the dragons?
* Will the Northerners respect Sansa?
* Will Jon be successful? Will he bend the knee to Dany?
* Will Arya turn around and go after Cersei instead of making her way back to Winterfell?
* Will Jon and Ser Davos kill Mel if they see her at Dragonstone?
* Will Dany listen to Lady Olenna? What will she unleash with her inner dragon?
* What is in the letter to Dany that Ser Jorah has penned?
* Does Lady Olenna really have Dany’s best interest at heart or is she just trying to get Dany to act like a Targaryen so that later on she can swoop for a victory war over whoever is left?
* Will Ser Jorah be cured of his greyscale?
More on Arya:
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Good: (continued)
* Yay Hotpie and Nymeria! I loved how they used Nymeria to show, how Arya is sticking to her true nature. She’s an assassin and I would be surprised if she continued to go up to Winterfell. She will probably head back on her mission to kill Cersei. She told Ned back at the beginning she wanted to be soldier and not a Lady of a House. She probably feels that’s what Jon would have her do if she goes there. I guess we will see.
'That's not You' Arya to Nymeria
What I am referring to here is Arya’s line to Nymeria ‘That’s not You’. Arya said to Ned ‘That’s not me’ when he was referring to her being a Lady of Winterfell back in either Season 1 or 2. (I believe they had just made to King’s Landing and he was having a conversation about what she wanted to do with her life. )
I believe Arya was talking to herself out loud. It’s a that point she realizes Nymeria needs to be true to her nature; a wild Direwolf; while Arya needs to be true to her own; a fighter; an assassin.
Almost Arya-pie
Am I the only one who fistpumped when Arya met up with Hotpie? Probably.
I think I’m definitely not the only one who thought Nymeria would eat Arya.
Another great episode. Do we expect anything less? Of course not.
Edit: I see the main man Fluids is with me on HotPie
Ok
I’ll be interested in what you guys think Arya took from her meeting with Nymeria. I wasn’t sure what her reaction meant.
I’m happy to see Sam trying to cure Jorah. But even if he’s successful shouldn’t he be kicked out of the Citadel for breaking the rules? What happens to poor Gilly and baby then?
I understand the need to push the story forward but it is beyond implausible that the flag ships of two fleets would collide head to head in the dark of night. I’m not looking forward to seeing more misery for Ellaria and Theon either.
I think she meant that Nymeria was free, living the life she was meant too. Traveling to Winterfell and living in a kennel for the rest of her, Nymeria, life would be a fate worse than death.
Better
I think this episode was an improvement over episode one. Many of the key decisions were logical, some were not.
Cersei rallying the Lords with the threat of foreign invasion made sense. Nothing unifies a people then a foreign invader.
Tryion’s battle plan does not really make strategic sense. Does it really matter if you die of starvation or Dragon fire? The small folk will still be dead. The Tyrell and Dornish armies would sack the city after it fell killing even more people. But I get it Danny was too over powered so she need to loose her fleet and the support of the Dornish and the Tyrells. She will also loose a dragon.
Robin might know the actual answer but I think a well trained, well disciplined ballista team could fire one bolt every few minutes at a fixed position. I don’t imagine you will have the opportunity to reload when a dragon is breathing fire at you.
Yara deserves to be captured. She is portrayed as this great warrior and captain but somehow she allowed the Iron Fleet to be ambushed and destroyed in a single night? You can see a long way at night underway. There is no way that the two flag ships would come in contact at the onset of the battle.
Theon fleeing the battle was the smart move. Yara abandoned him to Ramsey once, turn about is fair play. What was he supposed to do he was the last man standing on his side? Even if he defeated Euron he would have lost in the end.
Jon threatening Littlefinger was a great scene but his decision to leave Littlefinger behind does not make sense. Bring LF with you in his role as protector of the Vale. He should have a seat at the table. Imagine the interaction between the three biggest schemers on the show, LF, Varys and Tryion. LF can try to manipulate Danny. That would be fantastic.
Grey Worm is definitely going to die soon. There is no other reason to spend so much time on a sex scene. with secondary characters.
Do you guys think that Sam had to peel infected flesh away from Jorah’s privates? I bet that hurt.
I think the Vary’s speech to Danny about supporting a new ruler if she turns out to be unfit is foreshadowing his eventual support for Jon. Danny is a little crazy at times, just saying.
Game of Thrones can't ditch its worst habits
I liked most of the parts of this episode, but as a whole it continued the most worrisome trends that Game of Thrones picked up during the last couple seasons. Because of that I think it was a significantly weaker effort than the premiere.
I enjoyed most of the one on one conversation scenes. Jon with Littlefinger raised some nice tensions and allowed us to see 2 characters who have never interacted before come to blows. It reminded me of Ned and Littlefinger outside the brother from season 1. Varys with Dany was also great as it gave us a quick reminder on Varys and gave us some insight into what his position is regarding his loyalty to Dany. There is more about this scene that I liked which I will mention later in the review. Cersei with Qyburn was also a nice tease of her preparations to fight the Dragons. Lastly, Jaime with Tarly was a logical serene in which Jaime tries to buy the loyalty of another lord. I loved that Jaime and Cersei had used logical reasons to try to rally the support of other Westerosi houses against Dany.
Arya’s storyline was enjoyable. Aside from my problems with the details of her assassin powers, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed her season 7 story arc thus far. Her reunions were excellent and fun in a way Game of Thrones often isn’t. I was glad to see Hot Pie again and there were some funny callbacks to Arya cooking the Freys into pies. I loved Arya’s reaction to hearing about Jon retaking Winterfell. It was hopeful and yet also featured a hint of fear which really demonstrates how much her character has changed from season 3. The scene with Nymeria was also effective at driving in this point and also added the mystery of if Arya will go to Winterfell or Kings Landing. I would be fine with either because on one hand I would like to see her get vengeance on Cersei but I also want to see her reunite with her family.
Grey Worm and Missandei having a pleasurable sex scene to cement their love and overcome their limitations was wonderful. On a show so filled with misery and despair, this is a fresh breath of air even though it seems to mostly exist just to provide the episode with some mandatory boobs.
Sam trying to save Jorah from Greyscale was a nice development but I would have liked to see more about how the 2 characters felt about what they were doing. For example, I know that Sam chooses to help Jorah because he is Jeor Mormont’s son, but what are the consequences of his actions? Will he be kicked out of the Citadel? Is he afraid of that? Does he hope that the success of the treatment will be enough to let him stay? These questions needed to be answered to give the scene an emotional edge to make me care. Furthermore, we know even less about how Jorah feels in this situation which is a shame since it would be easy to relate to a man who has gotten the Westerosi equivalent of cancer. In the end, I liked the scene but I felt that it could have and should have been so much more.
The sea battle was awful. Sure it was visually cool and gruesome like all other Game of Thrones battles but this one made absolutely no sense. The nighttime setting for battle is unrealistic in many ways. How would anybody be able to see anything? Euron should not be able to accurately Attacks Yara and Theon’s fleet in the darkness of night. The nighttime setting also takes away from our enjoyment because it makes it extremely difficult to figure out what is happening, which in turn makes us care less about what is happening. At first I was going to complain about Euron being able to find Yara and Thron’s fleet so easily but I realized that Euron was run straight into them to leave Blackwater Bay so at least that part made sense. In the end the only thing I was actually happy about was that majority of the Sand Snakes were killed off. And thank god for that!
There are a few problems I have had with the show as a whole in the past few seasons that flared up once more in this episode. For one the show isn’t as good at balancing emotion and character with plot progression and battle. The 2 significant battles in season 2 and 4 felt much more thought out and impacted me a lot more than the battle in this episode did. And it’s not just a fluke because the major battles in seasons 5 and 6 had the same problem. Though I still enjoyed those battles, they weren’t as beautifully detailed and logical and they didn’t carry the same weight that the Battle of Blackwater or Battle of Castle Black did. There weren’t memorable character moments in this episode’s battle and there was very little attention given to the status of the battle and the tactics at play which was dearly missed after the tactical brilliance of the previously mentioned battles. The second problem, albeit a small one is the pacing. I am enjoying the quicker pace and it’s nice to see the plot move a bunch in fewer episodes, but in this episode it did take away from any possible build-up and emotional engagement. I’m not sure if this will effect the other episodes this season but it is a bit of a worry. Lastly, a flaw that I’ve noticed Robin mention quite frequently through his later season reviews, is that the show seems firmly focused on providing spectacle to a scene than actual storytelling. I mentioned this above a bit when I discussed Jorah and Sam’s scene, that Game of Thrones is trying too hard to be cool and fun and as a result is missing the proper emotion that these storylines should have. This has hurt my enjoyment of many other scenes these last few seasons, and it hurt my enjoyment of this week’s climactic moments as well like the prospect of Dany meeting Jon and the sea battle. I would like to see some more emotion and conflict added instead of just constant hype and excitement.
Overall, this episode continued the worst parts about the last few seasons. Though I still enjoy the show as a whole, it’s still less quality than it once was.
Another Great podcast!
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Great descriptions of Missandei and Greyworm’s time together and the quick edits between Samwell attempting to cure Jorah and tucking into Hotpie’s creations!
I think regardless of whether it’s setup for his fall in future episodes this did give me much more of Greyworm then I received in the past. It’s clearer that he actually has feelings for Missandei; not just lust from seeing her naked bathing from an earlier episode; and clearly it’s mutual. So, I felt it strengthen their bond. Although we are nearing the end of this whole thing, the one thing that would be cool to see consistent with these remaining episodes are touches here and there on secondary characters. I think that rounds out the world the major characters are in.
If you close it down too much I think there’s something that would get lost.
I really appreciate everyone’s feedback on the battle scene because it just didn’t work for me and I couldn’t understand why.
Now that I have had a chance to think about it, I think it’s because I had a hard time discerning between ships on opposite sides and the secondary people on each side fighting.
Also did Obara manage to stab Euron with her spear and did she coat it with poison like her father Oberyn used to?
I also had to rewatch to realize where Yara was with her ships. Ellaria tells Yara ‘When we reach Sunspear, I will treat you to a Dornish red, the best in the world.’
So, Dorn still has it’s army because Yara had not picked them up yet.
BTW: You might find this read interesting:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/game-of-thrones-how-did-euron-find-yara-sand-snakes-iron-fleet-attack-is-yara-dead
I also find it difficult to believe Yara didn’t see a thousand ships in the Narrow Sea positioning to attack them (even in darkness).
Your combined information on the likelihood of the flagships colliding also helped me understand why it didn’t work for me. I suppose one way it could be possible would be if one fleet was sailing around a jagged finger of land and went around it
and all of sudden there would be the other fleet. Then again there were the comments about how the flagships would be escorted most likely by other ships that would encounter each other first.
It seems like Euron’s sudden entrance was just there to shock us out of Yara and Ellaria’s sexual encounter. (Yet another twist set up by impossible or unlikely circumstances)
Other examples I think fall into this category:
* Trystane being killed by Obara in Blackwater Bay while preparing for Myrcella’s funeral. Only a day or so prior the Sand Snakes had bid Trystan fairwell from a dock at Sunspear. Unless they had a motorboat how as that possible?
* Arya (face or no face) manages to kill and chop up the two bodies of the Frey Brothers; somehow sneak those parts to the kitchen undetected and bakes pies out of them and then kills Walder Frey.
* Areo Hotah stabbed in the back by Tyene. He was a master of the guard and superb fighter. That was hard to believe. Such a great fighter couldn’t see that coming or employ preventative measures while guarding the prince?
You guys also turned me around about Arya going to Winterfell rather then continue to go after Cersei. I totally forgot that it was Jon who gave Needle to Arya, so of course she would head up to Winterfell. I still think though she will continue on with her quest to kill Cersei and the Mountain. I can see Winterfell being just a pit stop.