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15 comments on “Feedback Post, Season 08 Episode 06: The Iron Throne

  1. Tyler Wallis May 20, 2019

    And Now Our Watch Has Ended

    I think for where the story was at the start of this episode, that this finale did a great job of tying the show up in the amount of time they had left. I feel like the content of this last season would have been so so soooo much more satisfying, and so much more coherent writing-wise, if it were split into two 10-episode seasons: the 8th season revolving around the Night King, and the 9th season revolving around Jon and Daenerys and the ultimate fate of Westeros. Jon and Dany’s love story, and the tragedy of Dany’s madness unfolding needed so much more room to breath in my opinion. All that said my favorite moment of the episode, and possibly of the entire series, was Drogon melting the Iron Throne. Such a perfectly poetic moment.

  2. Katrina May 20, 2019

    They won, but not the 'they' we were expecting

    What a finale!
    It was a visually stunning, well scripted and acted episode. The scene in the small council was delighful and an excellent antidote for the earlier darkness in the story. Overall I found it a fitting ending to a complex story that was nearly impossible to end neatly.
    Bravo everyone for a decade of superb television!

    So the Children of the Forest have won the war they started against the invaders so very long ago, even though the Children are not alive to see it. The main Sept of the Seven, the Targaryen’s, and the symbols of Andal power have been replaced by a leadership the Children would like. And also the leader was chosen in the style of the First Men and the Free Folk and the North.

    Have generations of Andals, and later Targaryens, been fighting a millenium long chess game to be replaced by the culture they despised? Or perhaps its that under all the layers of invaders, the people’s culture has always been the First Men’s culture.

    In the end, invaders never win completely.

    • Katrina May 21, 2019

      PS

      P.S. GRRM said he told the producers where the characters end up – for the Starks its where they wanted to be in the first episode of the series and the start of book one.
      Queen Sansa, Adventurer Arya, Jon following in the footsteps of his Uncle Benjen, and Bran up high and able to see everything around him.
      Very clever Mr Martin

  3. 1/2 show satisfying and other 1/2 confusing and rushed

    Overall Show: I have never watched anything close to Game of Thrones over the past 8 years. It’s overall well crafted, beautiful, gritty medieval epic fantasy. I have never been dropped into a setting with such elaborate, complex; seemingly real characters. This review though is about the last episode.

    GOTS8E6:

    I give this episode a 75 out of 100. The story beats presented were nice to themselves, however I felt there were problems working the story that has been giving over the past 8 years with where the story lands (see: the Bad).

    Best Line: ‘Tyrion: I betrayed my closest friend and watched him burn…Now Varys’ ashes can tell my ashes: “See, I told you.”‘

    Good:

    * One thing for sure with Bran being King, you know every role he fills definitely has the best person for the job because he can perform a pretty amazing background check.

    * Ser Brienne writing about Ser Jaime, I was picturing her gradually morphing into George R.R. Martin as she was writing; a beard would start growing and Greek sailors cap appearing on her head.

    * Sansa being Queen of the North was a great story arc ending for her. I felt satisfied with her coronation.

    * Tyrion finding the remains of his brother and sister was well done by Peter Dinklage a lovely mix of emotions came across. I felt his rage and sorrow and frustration.

    * Tyrion’s speech to Jon about Dany I thought was the best scene in the show. It sounded like he was in love with Dany and she broke his heart with her madness.

    * Jon eliminating Dany does make sense as well as his banishment for doing so. His lineage doesn’t matter to Grey Worm (Torgo Nudho) although ironically lineage is the very thing Dany used to justify her conquest of Westeros. That twist I liked because it worked well with the entire story.

    * Samwell offers up Democracy to the Council and they laugh it off. This I thought that is what Dany was proposing after she ‘Broke The Wheel’.

    Bad:

    There’s story beats that have elements that don’t make sense (or have choppy execution.) I am convinced the show runners came up with these beats first to optimize audience draw and fan fare and then worked backwards towards the story that they have already told. It feels like it to me from a writing perspective and the whole reason I enjoyed this show as solely because of the story and I am not a book reader. BTW: I could do the same type of list for the past episode:

    * Wonderful story/action beat from a few seasons ago:
    Dany ‘I want to break the wheel’.

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    She has had a history of eliminating the power of ruling classes over conquered peoples; keeping the people alive after doing so. As of S8E5 she has now changed this to eliminating everyone (even those innocents who have no power under the rule of her enemies). This leaves only her armies to populate those new areas she conquers.

    * Wonderful story/action beat from a few seasons ago:
    Winter is here. We even saw the snow last season in King’s Landing.

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    The snow has been sometimes there; sometimes not. Roberto brought this up last episode during the (not really) battle with Cersei. In this episode it still wasn’t snowing. Then it was snowing in King’s Landing when Jon killed Dany. Then it wasn’t snowing when the Council convened. That was confusing.

    * Wonderful story/action beat on it’s own:
    Jon has to kill the woman he loves to save everyone.

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    It’s pretty clear that Dany has snapped if she can’t even register the endless innocents that would be killed if she is allowed to continue her conquests and she cannot see there’s no future generations that have peace if you exterminate them all to begin with. However there’s no gradual descent into madness like there should be. That being said, there are instances where people can suffer psychologically from the trauma of a violent event. I am guessing the death of Missendei must have been the breaking point.
    Who knows? It’s not really clear and it should be very clear.

    * Wonderful story/action beat on it’s own:
    Jon goes North of the Wall and they lower the gate to Castle Black.

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    Why bother? There’s a gaping hole in the wall any one could go through? If anything they should have left the gate open. If the wall has been repaired then why not show that to give the gate to Castle Black and the North more meaning?

    * Wonderful story/action beat on it’s own:
    Continuing to send criminals and bastards to the Wall

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    Why bother? There’s nothing to guard against anymore. Bran sent Jon Snow and ordered criminals to the North for some reason. If there’s anyone who would know, it would be him. Is there some hidden threat we aren’t aware of? Perhaps that should have been shown.

    * Wonderful story/action beat on it’s own:
    Six Kingdoms pick the new king when the old one dies.

    Relating to the story that has been told:
    What actually are the 6 Kingdoms at this point? Who runs the Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers isn’t clear. This I thought was sloppy writing that could have easily been handled with making it clear at the council meeting that the Iron Isles isn’t in the 6 Kingdoms anymore. From what I can gather: The North is a Kingdom (Sansa); The real North is a Kingdom (Jon); The Iron Isles is a Kingdom (Yara); leaving six Kingdoms under Bran:
    The Vale, The Stormlands, Kingdom of the Rock, The Riverlands, The Reach, and Dorne.

    * They didn’t tell us what happened to the Dothraki? Would they honestly take Grey Worm as their leader?

    Unknown:

    * Where did Drogon take Dany’s body? The Doom of Valyeria area of Essos?

    * Where is Arya off to?

    * Tyrion was the one who promised Bronn the Reach. He never went to Dany with this. Did Bran elect Bronn the Lord of the Reach? He had to in order for Bronn to be on the Small Council.

  4. Storm May 20, 2019

    Dracarys Dumpster fire

    The entire season was utter, vile, rubbish unless you drank the Stark kool-aid. Everything that happened, happened for no good reason. The writers were unimaginative, uninspired, unintelligent and unnecessary. A five-year-old could have done a better job. Thanks for giving us so many hopes and dreams and destroying it. The fan fiction was far superior to this dumpster fire of a season. Thank the Gods it’s finally over. I wouldn’t even give it a one-star rating if it wasn’t for the great acting by the cast.

  5. Alex McGregor May 21, 2019

    I think they closed this saga off about as well as they could. The imagery as Dany addresses her troops left us in no doubt what would come had she lived, and so she had to die. Her death was predictable, as was the identity of her assassin. I though the scene was excellent (they like the hug/stab scene don’t they? Roose on Robb, Ramsey on Roose).
    I’ve seen complaints that Drogon melted the throne rather than Jon’s face. Not from me. Time and again the intelligence of dragons is mentioned and the dragon knew it was the throne that killed her as much as Jon.
    One slight complaint is that I think there’s a scene missing right after this as I’d like to know how Jon wound up in a cell rather than butchered by Grey Worm.
    Good to see someone remembered to release Edmure. He’s obviously heard the phrase ‘you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.’ Sam’s attempt to introduce democracy was predictably laughed off.
    Again, I’ve seen complaints as to Bran becoming king. He’s got more knowledge than the rest of the country combined. He’s the only choice.
    And our favourites got what they wanted. Jon, for all his adventures, has only ever been happy with the free folk. Sansa gets to rule. Arya gets to be, well, Arya.
    Thank you for running this show. You’ve done it with wit, intelligence and patience and all involved should be very proud.

    • Cudos to Abe and Roberto!

      Here Here! Abe and Roberto, you have both done an amazing job covering this series! This is quite an epic story to take on for reviews and I have loved the exchanges all of us have had over the years. I will miss this more than I miss the show. The rating is for this show but personally I give you both 5 stars for your presenting and analysis skills!!!

    • Alex McGregor May 21, 2019

      Of course, me bring me I’ve forgotten something. No, not Howland Reed and Lyanna Stark. The Small Council are on about appointing a Master of Whisperers. If there’s a king in their history who doesn’t need one, it’s Bran.

  6. Fluids May 22, 2019

    How long does a three eyed Raven typically live?

    Hey Guys,

    How long does a three eyed raven typically live until?

    If it’s hundreds of years the council is in for a surprise when Bran outlives generations of council members!

    🙂

  7. Fluids May 22, 2019

    Are you guys planning on doing a series rap up podcast?

    Hi Abe and Roberto,

    Are you planning on doing a series wrap up podcast?

    In retrospect some of these story arcs are fantastic. Particularly Jon Snow and Tyrion’s for me.

    If not, what characters full arcs did you enjoy the most?

  8. lynne May 22, 2019

    Bittersweet for sure

    Based on where we left off with storylines with The Bells, I believe the first half was amazing: beautifully filmed and acted. The music is always perfect. Tyrion, Jon and Davos walking through the devastation was surreal, as was the incredible image of Dany with Drogon’s wings as if Dany became the dragon. I knew she was not going to be remorseful, but her Hitler like speech & demeanor while addressing the Unsullied & Dothraki confirmed that her means of freeing people from tyranny is beyond warped & disturbing. Kudos to Tyrion for standing up to her. Arya was right..she is a killer & it will be a matter of time that she kills Jon aka Aegon.
    I really enjoyed the scene with Tyrion & Jon. Of course Jon would never consider murdering innocent people like Dany did. Jon quoting Maester Aemon was a great callback. Even though we saw Tyrion coming back to his clever ways, I don’t feel he was manipulating Jon to save his own life, I believe it was for the greater good. I was waiting for Tyrion to mention Sansa & Arya to remind Jon at what’s at stake. Tyrion also confirmed that he was in love with Dany. I had wondered. Jon has never been about doing something to save his own life, but his duty was always to save others. Another favorite scene was Jon killing Dany. This was such a tragedy since they really did love one another. I believe if she had a different plan, he would not have killed her, but she was going to wipe almost everyone out. I believe his kiss was authentic. I also appreciated that he held her as she died as he held Ygritte when she died. With what was going down, Jon didn’t have a choice. He saved his family and the Realm. He truly is a tragic hero. The way Drogon nudged Dany, followed by melting the Iron Throne was emotional as well. I read on instagram that Grey Worm & Jon should’ve fought, followed by Drogon burning them with Jon surviving the fire as a Targaryen. Speaking of which, I was waiting for his lineage to be brought up in the council meeting in the dragon pit! Why not share this?
    I’m mixed about the second half, mostly due to the “we need to wrap this up” feeling. Yes, I wanted to have an idea where characters landed, and I am satisfied with Bran as King of the 6 Kingdoms, Sansa as Queen of the North, Arya the Explorer (so much open for her) and Jon reuniting with Ghost (another great scene) in the North. I still feel much sadness & heartbreak for Jon but under the circumstances, it’s as good as it can get. Being the type a person I am, I was also glad they showed Jon saying goodbye to his Stark Family & seeing Sansa crowned & Arya on the ship.
    Brienne finishing Jamies’ good deeds was sweet.
    I must admit, I loved that Tyrion was clever enough to conduct the meeting while in chains!
    Many questions remain…was Jon’s lineage reveal just a means to make Dany paranoid & destroy her relationship with Jon, and possibly relieve Jon of the bastard stigma for himself? Was it the Nissa Nissa Prophecy? Was that long talk between Tyrion & Bran just a vehicle for Tyrion to nominate him King? Did Ellaria Sand die in prison? Where are the Reeds?
    Who won the week? Some would say Bran but I will say Jon. Jon killed a woman he loved & a Queen he didn’t want to betray so he can stop her from more mass killings.

    In the end, we can all say that we needed another season or longer seasons 7 & 8. Despite some of our disappointments, GOT was a great series & brought so many people together. I am annoyed about the petition to redo season 8. Petition something that will make this world a better place! Thanks Roberto & Abe!

  9. Andrea May 23, 2019

    Starks For The Win

    Going to miss this show.
    I thought this 8th season was beautifully shot. The cinematography was amazing. There will be awards given for these episodes.
    The story moved too fast for me. The little intricacies and secrets we would usually see weren’t here in the 7th and 8th seasons.

    This episode was great. We knew where they were going. Starks for the win. The 6 kingdoms, the north, beyond the wall and Arya going to be like a spanish conquistador and claim something. 🙂
    Bran for the win. He played everyone. All of sudden he can hold a conversation. My question is, did he play his own cousin, Jon (Aegon)? What would’ve been the reason (besides possibly dying by the Night King), to tell Jon about his true parents?
    And Dany went a little cray, but it almost seems as if she would’ve been fine if Jon didn’t pull away, Jorah didn’t die, Rhaegal wasn’t shot down and Missandei wasn’t beheaded infront of her within a (2) episode arc. Seriously, that would make anyone lose their shit. Excuse my language.
    And was it me, or did Jon not really forgive Sansa? Which I blame a great deal on her, but she played the game.
    What are a bunch of killers going to do in Naath?
    Tyrion. Just a badass imp. He is a true MVP. Peter Dinklage for all the awards.
    I liked it. Sad to see it go. Seasons 1&4 will always be my faves. Valar morghulis!

  10. Aaronic May 23, 2019

    Disappointing

    I was really disappointed by this episode. Unfortunately after a weak season, we got a suitably weak conclusion. I suppose I may have expected a bit much from the show at this stage, but I really wanted this finale to put me on an emotional ride as I say farewell to Game of Thrones. In the end, that never happened.

    I liked a few things. The production and cinematography was stellar as usual. The desolation of the throne looked amazing. The acting was damn good too. I particularly have to praise Peter Dinklage and Emilia Clarke for this episode as they were awesome.

    But in exchange, the writing was awful. Dany and Jon never had a good relationship and their chemistry was always weak. When you couple that with the rushed nature of Dany’s evil turn, it’s no surprise that I felt almost nothing when Dany was killed. It felt like so much wasted potential and I could easily imagine Dany’s death being heartbreaking with better execution (pun not intended).

    The most atrocious part of this episode was the lack of follow-up to… well, anything. Dany conquered King’s Landing but there is little follow-up. How many survivors are there? How is Dany sure that Cersei actually died? Questions like these just aren’t answered and it’s frustrating. What’s worse is after Dany dies. What happens? I have no idea! The writers rushed past the follow-up to her death and I was left so lost and confused. Surely the world’s reaction to her death is a very important detail that must be included. Instead we are given a 3 week timeskip that reeks of laziness.

    Bran as King was really dumb because I can’t possibly buy into everyone selecting him. Half of the people at that meeting have no clue who he even is but they vote for him everything. And they listened to Tyrion, the prisoner, of all people. Ugh. Speaking of prisoners, why exactly was Jon imprisoned? Wouldn’t the Dothraki ave slaughtered him for killing Dany? Also, I don’t see why he can’t be forgiven for his crimes like Tyrion was. Furthermore, Jon’s lineage was never brought up again which is disappointing, especially since his name should have been first on the list of potential new kings.

    The actual ending didn’t work at all. It felt like a sloppy rendition of the Lord of the Rings ending which didn’t fit at all with Game of Thrones. The emotion just wasn’t there after all of the poor writing in this season, and I just didn’t feel enough to merit a long-winded conclusion that never seemed to end.

    There were many other little things that bothered me. Apparently nobody other than the North wants independence. Not even Yara who was actually promised independence back in the season 6 finale. Or Dorne, the one kingdom that always was independent. Unbowed, unbent, unbroken my ass. Bran as a character is inconsistent. One minute he doesn’t want anything, and the next he claims he really wants to be king. The existence of the Night’s Watch makes no sense. The wildlings are no longer a threat so what’s the point? Also, there’s a gaping hole in the Wall which would be a bit of a problem. The final small council scene was painful to watch. The quality of the writing was so poor compared to the early seasons. Rather than making me reflect on the series fondly, the scene painfully reminded me of how much worse the show is now compared to what it used to be. Lastly, it turns out that Jaime and Cersei would have lived had they just been standing 10 feet to the left. Huh.

    There were many more things than this that I disliked, but I think those are all of the highlights. This is an episode that gets worse and worse the more I think about it. The writing just left too many holes that are ridiculously easy to point out. I had hoped for a better ending to this show. At least I get to listen to one more awesome podcast to leave me with a better taste in my mouth.

  11. Matthew Taylor May 23, 2019

    Real Nuclear Wastelands - Like Hiroshima - Don’t Get Rebuilt as Quickly as King’s Landing

    Overall there was much to enjoy about the series finale, if you are approaching it as fan fiction as opposed to a serious adaption, which is the only way to view Game of Thrones at this point, sadly. Given this lens, it was a solid wrap-up. Dinklage’s role was great, I enjoyed the out-of-nowhere King Bran twist, the we’re-not-quite-ready-for-democracy joke, and I chuckled at the new small council banter.
    However, what stood out most for me is that the finale at least partially dropped the ball on wrapping up what it began with the nuking of King’s Landing. And that’s what it was – Martin has analogized his dragons to nuclear weapons, and Daenerys more or less turned the capital of Westeros into Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The episode started powerfully on this motif, with a man whose skin was falling off staggering through the city streets.
    And then, after Jon offs Dany: Huh? We flash forward a few weeks, and somehow life has returned to normal in the city, and the Dothraki are just wandering the streets in a jovial mood, interacting with the commoners.
    I know the showrunners wanted a mostly happy ending, and I understand why the dictates of Hollywood call for such. But, this is the end of Game of Thrones, an adaptation of a series of books whose core message is the horror of war. Even a few scenes, some sort of montage, showing us what it actually is like to cope with the magnitude of rebuilding and recovering from the devastation unleashed by Daenerys, would have been well served. It shouldn’t have been handled so whimsically. How many people lived, and how many died? Who’s left in King’s Landing to serve bowls of brown and provide medical services? Further, the capital is bankrupt! How will they rebuild with no money? What is the Marshall Plan for King’s Landing? Martin, in his analysis of Tolkien, critiques the way Lord of the Rings doesn’t really explore what post-war life under King Aragorn was like: his tax policy, how he dealt with the remaining orcs. What we got in the GOT series finale was an amusing parody of a rebuilding plan, but I think a more serious take was merited. Certainly the books will not devolve into fluff at the end instead of substance. Martin always merges his humor into the background of serious storytelling, as opposed to foregrounding it at the expense of story, as the show has done a few too many times.
    A final thought about the Daenerys arc: by the end, she’s gone full “evil caricature” villain. She felt like someone out of a Disney movie, or an Anakin Skywalker archetype. There’s something about the writing of her in the final two episodes that just didn’t hit home in terms of how a Targaryen in her position, as conceived by GRRM, would speak and act.
    Oh, and how the heck were there so many Dothraki still kicking around – didn’t most of them die in The Long Night? Did they respawn? Do the writers even care about consistency?
    P.S. – Abe and Roberto, I hope you will do one final episode as a wrap-up to the entire Game of Thrones series. I’d like to send you a more substantial analysis, if so, to explore the ways the show did and didn’t work as art in relation to its source material. Perhaps in the series wrap up you could structure it as: rate each season 1-5 stars. Or, seasons 1-4 (adaptation) vs. seasons 5-8 (increasingly fanfiction).

    Thank you for making the most insightful and considered Game of Thrones podcast out there…

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